Even though I knew about the impeding wikipedia blackout over a day in advance, I am still annoyed by it. I’ve gone so far as to engage in a very difficult game of clicking links and then disabling my wireless internet in the brief second between loading the page I want and redirecting to the blackout page, more out of juvenile spite than anything.
But it does make me uneasy. I realize how much I depend on Wikipedia to answer questions that would otherwise annoy me, and my unease is not abated any by Google reminding me that they could do the same thing if they wanted. The internet has done impressive things to market forces – with no transportation or geographical considerations to create local markets, the market is biased towards conglomerations. Generally, this is good – I would hate to have to use Yahoo just because there wasn’t a Google store in Helena. However, it does lead to an extraordinary concentration of power in the hands of relatively few people.
Companies that go public have some additional checks and balances; nonetheless I feel like a large percentage of people would find the internet a cold and inhospitable place if Wikipedia, Google, and Facebook decided they would no longer grace it with their presence. Fortunately, I generally agree with the powers that be at Google and Wikipedia. Nonetheless, it does seem like someday, a full on digital strike could be extraordinarily effective and relatively easy to accomplish. If Wikipedia sees this black out as effective, anticipate more in the future. That prospect is enough for me, anyway, to consider broadening my own digital neighborhood so as not to be at the mercy of a few digital giants. Does it also justify a reconsideration of how we deal with monopolies on the internet, which seems uniquely likely to encourage them, or the extent to which we give allow web based organizations to concentrate traffic and, thus, influence?
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The response from media companies and politicians has been absurd. Clearly, the First Amendment protects the right to not speak–even if that means making it harder for me to figure out how old Pablo Neruda was when he wrote Twenty Love Poems and a Song of Despair.
The MPAA offered this nuanced statement today:
It is an irresponsible response and a disservice to people who rely on them for information use their services. It is also an abuse of power given the freedoms these companies enjoy in the marketplace today. It’s a dangerous and troubling development when the platforms that serve as gateways to information intentionally skew the facts to incite their users in order to further their corporate interests.
A so-called “blackout” is yet another gimmick, albeit a dangerous one, designed to punish elected and administration officials who are working diligently to protect American jobs from foreign criminals. It is our hope that the White House and the Congress will call on those who intend to stage this “blackout” to stop the hyperbole and PR stunts and engage in meaningful efforts to combat piracy.”
"their corporate interests. "
I realize that 'corporate as a word is now enough to panic the average American, but it should be used appropriately. Wikipedia is a non-profit organization. A true corporation, like Google, has a harder time shutting down for a day to make a point. Something about shareholders expecting the company to, you know, function. The MPAA is the one engaging in hyperbole here.
AS to Wiki, try using this window: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
That's a much more elegant fix than just reading Simple English or Portuguese Wikipeda, I must say.
I don't need the blackout to goad me into letting Congress know SOPA is a bad idea. I've been sending that message to our blessings in Washington for some time. The blackout's only effect on me is to make me pretty damned angry at being denied access to the Wiki. I'm being punished for the sins of others.
James the Mobile link I posted still works.
Thanks, Craig. Problem is, I don't have a smart phone and don't plan to get one. So I'm stuck with my computer and the arrogant blackout. It rankles.
James, the link works from any computer or smartphone with internet access. I don't have a smart phone either.
James, are you seriously saying that the importance of the blackout boils down to a matter of your personal convenience? Obviously, Wikipedia is of importance to you, so I have to ask, how much do you pay to access it?
You write: "I'm being punished for the sins of others." My website is hosted on Typepad. In truth, I've found it a good value for the money I pay. If SOPA passes, then Typepad (6 Apart) will be at the very mercy of it's least ethical users, and so will I. I could truly be punished (no hyperbole involved) for the sins of others. The same goes for those who host at Wordpress.com and Blogger.com. Your current punishment of not being able to access a website free to you will be relieved tomorrow morning. If SOPA passes, then what I've paid for for for over 8 years will be under constant threat of any complaint leveled against 6 Apart. Your unfettered access to Wikipedia could end abruptly and with no resolution at all. I sincerely hope that you can understand why I find nothing "arrogant" at all in the blackout.
Anybody else remember a couple of years on back, when the AP threatened to sue a couple of mid-level bloggers for linking and quoting stories of AP content? The AP backed off in a hurry when challenged by the 'big guys' (Moulitsas, Doctorow …) With SOPA at their disposal, they wouldn't have had to back off at all. In application, SOPA could kill blogging as any of us know it. Considering his copyright to all material at this website, I could violate SOPA by quoting Pogie. I'm not being facetious when I write that SOPA could and will be the end of blogging.
If one is deeply concerned about the conglomeration of information, I'd consider that for a bit. The free wheeling Internet always fills a vacuum, unless the ability to do so is hamstrung from the get-go. If the Google-Empire were to suddenly go Galt, there would be software to fill to the void. Yahoo wants primacy back and Bing is waiting. Vimeo is an alternative to Youtube and there is little that needs to be changed for DeviantArt to replace Tumblr. Facebook replaced MySpace, and maybe the reverse could be true. Anything at all can and likely will happen as long as the least accessible byte stored somewhere can communicate in common language with any other storage out there. SOPA looks to break that language, TCPIP, that communication between storage. A country in which bytes are shared widely and repeatedly, put together, remixed and jumbled becomes a country in which 'information' is owned by the highest bidder. I guess money can talk; I just don't like that language much.
I wish the Google Empire had gone dark a day. There would have been a very real and visceral financial cost to it, in lost productivity, loss of ad revenue and loss of web marketed sales. Like or not, Google is the 800lbs. gorilla in the room. They talk, Congress is more likely to listen. In truth, I think Google did themselves a financial favor today. They are against SOPA, but stand the most to gain by it's passage. Google could control the language by which content is formed and distributed, using the government to enforce it's property right over the information of the nation. They definitely have the money to buy the Intertubes. Fortunately, they chose not to … at least as far as we know. DunDun DAH!
PW, honestly, if Wikipedia, Goigle and Facebook did not exist, something else would. Wiki is nice in that, unlike Google, it is yet to shed its idealism. But all That is playing out here is the board game Monopoly. When one player, often enough by luck, gains strategic advantage, he can crush the competition. That is all that happened with Google and Facebook – by chance, they got the upper hand. Had it not been them, we'd be MySpacing And Jeevesing everything, and you would not know the difference.
The Internet is a moving target in terms of corporate control – they want to shut us down, and indeed, with Wikileaks they succeeded. They demonstrated frightening power in shutting down WIki , freezing Assange in place (unless he's got a guardian angel, he'll end up in jail), and torturing and destroying the person once known as Manning. They are perfectly willing to let you shop and look at naked girls, but if you use this medium for political organizing or if you undermine their intellectual property rights, they will shut you down. That is the end game, anyway, and notice that the corporation and the government appear as the same animal.
It just so happens in this small part of the battle that Google is squared off against Sony and Others. Otherwise, this would be a subterranean debate, like the detention bill.
This is but a small battle n a much larger war, and as Wikileaks demonstrated, we are losing,
Mark, what is a "Goigle"? Do you even know where the word "Wiki" comes from? Are you saying that "Goigle" and "Facebook" were "lucky"? Neither gained the 'upper hand' by chance. They did so by software. And seriously, what the hell is a "Goigle"?
Corporations want to shut "us"down and they succeeded with Wikileaks? You might want to proofread at sometime, Mark.
"They are perfectly willing to let you shop and look at naked girls, but if you use this medium for political organizing or if you undermine their intellectual property rights"
Well Mark, naked girls and shopping are legal all around, online or off, and I've never seen anyone go to jail using the internet for mere political organizing, in this country. Now, if you use the internet for spying, or for stealing intellectual property, the fact that you are using the internet is secondary to the fact that you are breaking the law.
What you are really complaining about, Mark, is that you are not allowed to commit theft or espionage, even if you use the internet. Now, the current attempts to stop piracy are heavy handed to the point of being unuseful, and the treatment of Bradley Manning is uncivilized. But that doesn't mean that intellectual property rights should not be at least nominally enforced online, or that espionage ought to be tolerated as long as it is done using the internet. Simply changing the medium with which a crime is committed does not remove the government's responsibility to deter it.
These are valid points. I am expressing fear at what might be in store more than what has actually happened so far. I'm not terribly concerned about piracy, as technology will find a way and cannot be stopped. That's not an area where I like seeing the heavy hand of the state weigh down. That's a cat and mouse game where the corproations are so frustrated they have elected to use the government to solve the technology issues by throwing people in jail.
Espionage? Wikileaks didn't even come close to that. There is so much secrecy that things we need to know about are routinely hidden from us, and we don't have a burrowing press, so Wikileaks did some actual journalism, an odd looking duck since we don't have it in regular practice. People get thrown in jail for that.
I've noted many times in my writing that our freedom of speech is really an illusion.. When speech threatens power, people get hammered, and what has happened to Manning and will happen to Assange is meant to chill us. No whistle blower will step forward now that they see Manning tortured and imprisoned, perhaps for life. Obama means to jail Assange. He's trumped every administration in history now in clamping down on whistle blowers. Freedom of speech means tolerating speech we do not like, and we do not tolerate such speech if it in any way threatens entrenched power.
Actually, Mark, the greatest fear to be found in SOPA/PIPA is that the common wisdom of the Internet is wrong. "Technology will find a way and cannot be stopped" only works as long as the technology works. SOPA supporters do not ask the government to 'throw people in jail'. They are literally asking for the power to break the Internet. Technology can find ways around attempts to block or hide content. What it cannot do is defy itself. As you should well know by now, TCPIP is the common language by which technology speaks across distance. Break that and there is no way for technology to adapt that is remotely feasible. (Yes, other protocols have been designed for technology to speak over distance. To adapt that for world wide use means rebuilding the Internet from the ground up.)
And yes, Mark. A foreign national cultivating an asset in order gain access to state secrets is precisely the definition of espionage. Just because you paint it all with a big ole' propaganda brush of 'the TRUE meaning of patriotism' doesn't mean it wasn't a frickin' crime. It was. Your narrative of journalistic nobility might be more credible if you could or would explain why Assange spent so much time lying his ass off about his contact with and cultivation of Bradley Manning. It might also hold up better if Manning were to use a whistle-blower defense. He hasn't. He relied on a defense of psychological stress due to "gender confusion". As much as I lament how damaging that is to the GBLT community in attempting to get beyond the 'mental illness' trope, I also recognize it as an open admission of guilt.
You have written a great deal about how "freedom of speech is really an illusion". Your fundamental confusion is that writing a lot about it doesn't mean that you're correct.
If you could only write better. When you start out saying "actually" I fade away quickly. You are so obtuse in argumentation, hammering away as if your audience has a nail in the forehead and your job is to drive it home … You are just a bad writer, that's all, tedious, insisting that people concede minor points in a grand way to feed your grandiosity … I have no clue what you wrote above, but I can say for certain that your minor points are hammered home in a grandiose fashion, and that there is no flare or embedded humor. In other words, you BORE my ass, and I sincerely ask that you leave me alone. I did not invent the unopposed forum. I now write about you on my blog and you are not allowed to reply. You invented that method of debate. Live with it. If you want to have a debate, either open up your chickens whatever blog or LITW, but stop using other people's forums to answer my attacks on you. I am hoisting you by your own petard, you sorry SOB. Deal with it.
"I am hoisting you by your own petard"
That doesn't even make sense, does it? Not to mention the fact that you are now scurrying away to Wikipedia because you haven't the first clue what a "petard" is, do you?
Mark, you've proven that you can comment at my site, and I've proven that I can comment at yours. There is no battle here, save that I've replied to your comments on topic, and you fail at even attempting the same. Insult my writing all you wish. But I've addressed what is in the post and of interest. You apparently haven't the balls.
Hoist by one's own petard: Injured by the device that you intended to use to injure others.
Wikipedia it is …
I will only comment anywhere under my own name. I abandoned the other monikers as I was not self-aware and was being a jerk.
You are free to comment on my blog under the name Monty, the one you used to pretend to have been trolled, thereby blaming me and smearing me. Any other name, you are banned, MF.
I don't do requests, Mark. I thought you would know that by now.
Not even a clever deflection. But do follow on my request that you GFY.
Self-pleasure? Is that really the worst you can conjure, Mark? How about you actually try to respond to what I've written? Or are you chicken?
You are truly a manipulable asshole.
I was so confused about what to buy, but this makes it undrsetandable.
Many many qulaity points there.
Mark, leaking confidential memos to the public regarding the diplomatic corps is espionage. The messages were classified as secret; their disclosure had the potential to do damage to US diplomacy. That's espionage. Even if the communiques in question were between two private individuals, their disclosure through electronic means would be illegal. When you commit that same crime against the government, it becomes a good deal more serious.
As to piracy, however, I have to agree. Piracy is already illegal – the laws that exist are sufficient in that regard. However, if the laws are unenforceable, that's not the fault of the people who get caught in the crossfire between pirates and corporations. I'm already resentful towards both sides for making me sign in to Steam if I ever want to play a game on my PC. The last thing we need is the government forcing ISPs and search engines to do their job for them.
I cannot believe how much people believe in secrecy – no on has been harmed by Bradley's activity, though it would not bother me if real criminals were exposed. Torture is illegal, Bradley was tortured and ought to walk, just as Ellsberg did when i.t was learned that Nixon had committed illegal acts against him. Our government is involved in illegal and violent behavior all over the globe. We do not have a burrowing press or open media, we do not have journalism. For myself, I put Manning on a postage stamp ang frog march Obama and company off to the hoosegow.
The reason you "can't believe how much people believe in secrecy", Mark, is because it's a lie you're telling yourself, one you desperately want to "believe". Secrecy isn't a belief, it's a tool. Witness how quickly Assange and Wikileaks were to cry foul when their secrets (organizational and personal) were coming to light. I'm certain that you have a secret or two of your own that you wouldn't want exposed. I'm certain, of course, because we all do.
The story of Manning's torture appears to be greatly over-rated. Most of it goes back to his solitary confinement. I concede that solitary, over an extended period can have a harmful and torturous affect on people. Many people have told me so, Hamsher, Greenwald, DDay, Emptywheel …. Not a one of them seems willing to expose the simple fact that Manning was in solitary at the request of his attorney. His lawyer requested extreme protection and in a military lockup, that will mean solitary. Those with an axe to grind won't and haven't even noticed. The cynical will believe that Manning's lawyer was setting up the defense of crazy by nature of being FABULOUS! The somewhat less cynical might think that Manning's lawyer really did believe that his client was in danger for other military personal, given the long held belief that the GEY is hated by the military. That seems pretty plausible, now doesn't it? The crazy will hold to the belief that Obama ordered this torture directly and wishes he could be in the cell pulling fingernails himself! No one fusses withe head 'black guy' in the White House. Chicago Style. "Bush's Third Term", but meaner. The pLeft ignores fact to drive their narrative. Manning has been a confused and abused poor hero for showing us all the ugliness that supports our mythologies. Amen.
You appear to be a combination of the above, Mark.
Is that it, then? Is it everything? If so, then I concede every point! Now please, gfy. It's not self-pleasuring. It is an impossible act that takes up so much of your time that you are out of everyone else's hair. That's all it means, Chuck. You got nothing. Stop wasting band width.
I thought Matt's original post was a pretty interesting topic to discuss.
Tried.
Liar.
Once again, Mark, you distract from the topic you claim that you thought a "pretty interesting topic to discuss". I've discussed it, both directly and with regards to your side step into Wikileaks. You remain so terrified of me that you pollute others websites with your fear and demand that I go away. Challenging me to 'go f*** myself' is neither useful, interesting or informative. I have dealt with SOPA/PIPA in my comments. I have dealt with Wikileaks and their toady Manning in my comments. You are simply trying to get me expunged from yet another website that challenges your delusions because I see those fantasies for what they are. This isn't about you and me, asshole. You might want to come back to reality and admit that at some point.
It is because I was trying to avoid you, and have a discussion with Matt. You kept interjecting yourself, which is why I asked you, politely I might add, to gfy. Your opinions mean nothing to me, your writing is heavy and ponderous and humorless, your tedious reasoning processes dull and witless. Please, go away. I don't seek you out, don't want to converse with you. Your name is not Matt. It is Rod. OK Chuck?
So you concede that what Manning did was in fact espionage? Just as long as you concede that. I know you agree with Manning and disagree with Obama, that's your choice. But the law doesn't have that choice to make – Manning broke the law.
Torture is another matter. If this were a civil case, and Manning were tortured (really tortured – solitary confinement is not torture, at least, not legally), he definitely would walk. Manning faces a court martial, and I don't really know the rules for that. But that doesn't remove the basic fact that Manning committed the crime of espionage as a member of the military. The punishment for that crime is severe, not because the government is trying to shut down the internet or our freedom of speech, but because this government, like every government in the history of the nation state, has a need to pass laws that defend it from treason and enforce the laws it passes.
I'll concede it in the same sense that I'll concede that the people who cracked the Nazi Enigma machine committed espionage, and could have been killed for their efforts. You are much too much supportive of the National Security State for my taste. The government is keeping secrets from the American people that have nothing to to with security, and everything to do with protecting criminals from exposure, Manning is a brave man, will pay a Nathan Hale-like price for his acts, and I honor him.
I said torture, and not solitary confinement. I meant to use the word torture, and not solitary confinement. Sleep deprivation and nudity, circle-walking and sensory deprivation are torture, Obama, as CnC of Thr military, had the power to stop this at any time and chose not to, and so is accountable. It's frog-marching time for him in a just world. The UN wanted to investigate the matter, but was blocked by the Obama administration, who then moved him from his location in VA to Ohio? The matter needs investigation, the UN is the proper agency. Maybe someday, post American collapse, we'll have Nuremburg Trials again, and criminals will hang
After I wrote this it occurred to me that torture as it is perceived is quite different than the sophisticated techniques developed by the CIA and military in the post-war era, nd this is not widely understood. What we saw at Abu Ghraib was the result of development of these techniques over decades of 'research' using psychologists and psychiatrists, drugs (which is why LSD originated in the military), trial and error. Hooding is done for sensory deprivation, standing for hours on end the same, cultural taboos (nudity), fear-inducing archetypes (the dogs) are all designed not to elicit information, but rather to induce psychosis. The object is to destroy the personality. when successful the victim is released back into the population rendered harmless, maybe even a warning to the other rebels still at large. They also do pain and murder too, but probably for those who cannot be broken by regular techniques.
When I said Manning was tortured, I meant that they were trying to break him down, probably to use him as a witness when they finally get Assange here for a show trial. It was systematic, monitored and supervised. Apparently they failed, as he is broken but refused to turn on Assange. They have tried him now and are going to imprison him for life. He'll probably 'commit suicide' at some point down the road. And again, since Obama had the power to stop it, he is accountable.
So, what you have told me is…the state treats badly those who commit treason against it. What does and does not constitute torture is a matter for the courts, or for the UN. The tactics of psychological torture are terrifying (as one of my philosophy professors said, waterboarding demonstrates our knowledge of of the human mind better than all the psychology books in the world); however, they are indicative only that the state continues to be brutal in defending itself from treason, and has nothing at all to do with freedom of speech.
This is Unlike you in total, deflecting, avoiding issues rather than addressing them. the state does not have a right to torture anyone. Manning was tortured even before accusation of crimes. The nature of the crime needs to be addressed, and while espionage (which has now become "treason" in your mind) can be punishable by death, it is not a turnkey for torture.
You've also not addressed excessive secrecy, protection of whistle blowers (Obama is ruthless, far more than any president ever), or the need for due process, something civilized countries recognize. The UN Human Right Commission is the perfect venue for investigation of torture accusations. Are you also one who disses the UN? I'm wondering how badly I have misjudged you, thinking you merely a conservative Democrat. You're sounding almost neocon.
One of the things I spent most of my time on is editing student papers. This would be an instructive example.
There are some arguments in here worth consideration and debate. They are, however, almost entirely undermined by your decision to speculate about your opponent's motives and to attack him personally.
Just try to stick to the argument. Argument is the way we learn from one another.
From my vantage point he has retreated behind some obtuse reasoning, finding Manning guilty of first espionage and now treason. He has denied that the UN has any authority in this matter. He has not addressed due process, secrecy, the existence of a right to torture … In these matters he is refusing to debate and so needs to be smoked out. By your reasoning I should address only those points he allows into the debate, thereby conceding virtually the entire playing field to him.
The neocon point is defensible as dissing the right of the UN to investigate torture, finding people guilty of treason for minor crimes, and without due process, and defending the right of the state to torture are all neocon positions. I stand
Daniel Ellsberg committed espionage as well. He would have been convicted but for the abuses of Nixon's plumbers which caused the case to be thrown out. Ellsberg broke the law. There is a very thin line between a govt defending from treason/espionage and a govt itself that is corrupt and treasonous. PW, I realize you are only stating that the govt is enforcing the law and not making a value judgment on their actions but that is what Mark is crying out for. Would it have been right or moral for Ellsberg to get the same treatment and place in a cell post conviction as will Manning?
I'm not enough of an expert on the situation at hand or on the nature of psychological abuse and the legal implications thereof to make an informed call on whether Manning ought to be released on those grounds. In areas where one is not an expert, it's sometimes better not to hold a strong belief. Mark may be totally correct on that point, but over zealousness in prosecuting espionage is not the same as restricting free speech.
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